ethics - Depth Psychology Alliance2024-03-29T08:02:14Zhttps://depthpsychologyalliance.com/group/new-global-mythology/forum/topics/feed/tag/ethicsThe Permaculture King. New Myth #5 by Willihttps://depthpsychologyalliance.com/group/new-global-mythology/forum/topics/the-permaculture-king-new-myth-5-by-willi2012-06-25T15:51:21.000Z2012-06-25T15:51:21.000ZWilli Paulhttps://depthpsychologyalliance.com/members/WilliPaul<div><p style="text-align: center;"><span class="font-size-3" style="font-family: verdana, geneva; color: #ff6600;"><strong>Question: Can we use the ethics of permaculture</strong></span></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><span class="font-size-3" style="font-family: verdana, geneva; color: #ff6600;"><strong>to write new myths?</strong></span></p>
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<p style="text-align: center;"><span class="font-size-3" style="font-family: verdana, geneva;"><strong>The Permaculture King. [ <a href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/1619" target="”blank”">open myth source</a> #4 ]</strong></span></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><span class="font-size-3" style="font-family: verdana, geneva;"><strong>by Willi Paul, <a href="http://www.planetshifter.com/" target="”blank”">PlanetShifter.com Magazine</a></strong></span></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><span class="font-size-3" style="font-family: verdana, geneva;"><strong><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2868849887?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="300" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2868849887?profile=RESIZE_320x320" width="300"/></a></strong></span></p>
<p style="text-align: center;"><span class="font-size-3" style="font-family: verdana, geneva;"><strong> </strong></span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;">“I wish it would rain again,” bumbled the King – his hairy feet dangling, and dripping then toe laughing in the old cistern behind his <strong><a href="http://www.livingearthstructures.com/index.html" target="”blank”">cob house</a></strong>. “Yes, feet can laugh and even tell the lady bugs where to go! The roof panels need a watering.”</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;">Water nourishes the plants and animals in his tiny urban garden kingdom like the blood pushing through his heart. But the soil gets long rows of shallow ditches that collect and percol water to the corn and squash and beets and the all of the green beans and pole peas in 6” deep thumb pressed canals or arteries.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;"><strong>The King grows his metaphor patch, too</strong>, and routinely speaks of the many interconnected systems that makes up his sun powered biosphere when children and adults come round.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;">Truth is, some of the neighborhood peeps snicker when the King rolls up his jeans and prances on his compost pile, but they buy the goop ASAP when the old bio-chemistry professor bags the stinky slue for their roses and lemon trees.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;">* * * * * * *</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;">One thing the King always wanted to tattoo to his forehead: <strong>“This is not gardening.”</strong> His little neighborhood permie ranch is better experienced as a year round sustainability map. Each season means new plants and new mulch, fruits come and go. Meals race with the Sun while the compost just keeps on kissing the soil.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;">Teachers and their kids from area schools with their rubber gloves and digital cameras, looking for easy Earth Worms and complicating easy eco-concepts. A sign dangling on the cob house dissects permaculture as unique among alternative farming systems (e.g., organic, sustainable, eco-agriculture, biodynamic) in that it works with a set of ethics that suggest we think and act responsibly in relation to each other and the earth.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;">The ethics of permaculture provide a sense of place in the larger scheme of things, and serve as a guidepost to right livelihood in concert with the global community and the environment, rather than individualism and indifference.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;">The King always grabs a serious tone when relaying the ethics of permaculture with his subjects:</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;"><strong>* Care of the Earth</strong> - includes all living and non-living things - plants, animals, land, water and air</span><br/> <span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;"><strong>* Care of People</strong> - promotes self-reliance and community responsibility & access to necessary resources for existence</span><br/> <span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;"><strong>* Setting Limits to Population & Consumption</strong> - gives away surplus - contribution of surplus time, labor, money, information, and energy to achieve the aims of earth and people care.</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;">* * * * * * *</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;"><strong>Permaculture is great fun</strong>. There are many festivals and workshops for all ages: The bi-annual <strong><a href="http://www.ted.com/talks/cary_fowler_one_seed_at_a_time_protecting_the_future_of_food.html" target="”blank”">Seed Swap</a></strong> helps to safeguard against GMO or toxic seeds from the bad corporations.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;"><strong>The Lattice Tie Party</strong> to tie-up creeping vegetables like snap peas and beans. Come on, lets’ pruning the apple trees and then eat through the berry patch and take home a quart for Mom!</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;">The King and his older friends are constantly fidgeting with the <strong><a href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/1400" target="”blank”">grey water pipes</a></strong> - filtering and watering the crops with little City reserves.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;">The Permaculture King loves his <strong><a href="http://www.ecologycenter.org/ecohouse/" target="”blank”">solar topped cob hut</a></strong>, the seasons and the compost stains on his feet and legs. His challenge isn’t in the constant weeding and planting and harvests but the struggle to get the word out, to get out of the garden and tell the planet’s peeps how to do the permaculture!</span></p>
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<p><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva;"><strong>Alas, we are all like the King – shining; running round and round in our local days with an Atlas-like dream. </strong></span></p></div>“Will Mythology Save Us?” Conversations with Willi Paul and Arthur George. From Planetshifter.com Magazine.https://depthpsychologyalliance.com/group/new-global-mythology/forum/topics/will-mythology-save-us-conversations-with-willi-paul-and-arthur2014-07-19T15:32:15.000Z2014-07-19T15:32:15.000ZWilli Paulhttps://depthpsychologyalliance.com/members/WilliPaul<div><div class="field field-type-image field-field-image"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item odd"><a rel="nofollow" href="http://planetshifter.com/node/2197" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.planetshifter.com/uploads/imagecache/standard/centerspace_75.png?width=357" width="357" class="align-center"/></a></div>
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<p style="text-align: center;"><span class="font-size-3"><strong>“Will Mythology Save Us?” Conversations with Willi Paul and Arthur George. From <a rel="nofollow" href="http://planetshifter.com/node/2197" target="”blank”">Planetshifter.com Magazine</a>.</strong></span></p>
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<p>"The next step is to remember where myths come from. Depth psychology teaches us that they come ultimately from our unconscious psyche, principally the collective unconscious. On the one hand, this fact too shows that myths can be global. On the other hand, it means that the new myths can’t and won’t be so 'new.' They will have to be based on archetypes that formed during our long psychic evolution and which generated the old myths. The difference now, as in the past, is that in order to resonate and have life the new myths must wear the dress of contemporary environments and cultures."</p>
<p><em>- from the June 23, 2014, <a href="http://mythologymatters.wordpress.com/" target="blank">blog post</a>: "What Should Be the New Myths? Global Myths?" by Arthur George, mythologist and author of the new book <a href="http://www.mythologymatters.com/book-the-mythology-of-eden.html" target="blank">The Mythology of Eden.</a></em></p>
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<p>“<a href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/2194" target="”blank”">Permaculture Emerges in Partnership with Nature</a>. Permaculture is a new agri-design movement that promotes healing Nature and sustainability with local - global actions. New archetypes come into public conscious thru <a href="http://www.patternliteracy.com/permaculture-reference/ethics-and-principles/" target="”blank”">permaculture’s three ethics</a>:</p>
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<p><strong>(+)</strong> Care for the Earth<br/> <strong>(+)</strong> Care for People<br/> <strong>(+)</strong> Return the Surplus</p>
<p><em>- Willi</em></p>
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<p>* * * * * * *</p>
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<p><span class="font-size-3"><strong>Willi Interviews Art -</strong></span></p>
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<p><strong>Can you offer a vision of what the present day Eden would look like? Are there actual examples that we could critique?</strong></p>
<p>I don’t consider Eden, even in the original story, as ultimately having a clear concrete geography or detailed physical characteristics. As Joseph Campbell observed, the Eden story “yields its meaning only to a psychological interpretation,” and the Garden of Eden is really a metaphor for our minds (Thou Art That, p. 50). While in the Garden prior to their transgression, Adam and Eve were in what we would call an unconscious or pre-conscious state, where they did not perceive or understand opposites, whether those of good vs. evil or otherwise. In reference to the creation, the post-Jungian psychologist Erich Neumann called this primitive state where all was one unity the “uroboros” (The Origins and History of Consciousness, pp. 5-38). Adam and Eve’s gaining the knowledge of good and evil gave them the faculty of mind to perceive and understand opposites, which today we recognize as ego consciousness. Thus, this step was really the completion of the creation of humans, at which point they could walk out of the garden and live in the real world. In light of this, any attempt to recreate and live in any new “Eden” would be regressive. Rather, human consciousness must move forward and upward, further from Eden (see Question below). It would be best for modern myths to be oriented in this direction, as was the main line of the original Eden myth in my interpretation.</p>
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<p><strong>Is chaos central to our modern mythic resource pool?</strong></p>
<p>Ultimately it has to remain central, though “chaos” is no longer the best term for this. In the ancient creation myths, the pre-creation state was described as one of primordial waters, which were chaotic in the sense of lacking form or order. Creation was visualized as establishing an ordered cosmos from earlier chaos, featuring things like time, multiplicity, opposites, and cause and effect. As psychology shows, water is a prime symbol for the unconscious, which is reflected in the primordial waters in this creation motif. In her book Creation Myths (pp. 2-4), the post-Jungian psychologist Marie Louise von Franz wrote that the creation motif of order being created out of chaos is rooted in our own experience of coming into consciousness; in psychic terms, our becoming aware of the ordered world and the world coming into existence are equated. We experience this when waking in the morning as the outside world of space, time, order, and cause and effect fall into place. Similarly, developmental psychology shows that infants don’t initially perceive such an orderly outside world, but that within a few years it falls into place as a sense of self emerges.</p>
<p>Since “chaos” is nothing other than our own unconscious, this is not something that will disappear. And since our unconscious is the source of myths, of course it will remain central to our mythic resource pool. We can stop calling it chaos, however, as that suggests that had/has an external metaphysical existence.</p>
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<p><strong>Do you subscribe to my thesis that there are old, time-worn and almost forgotten myths and new myths emerging based on many ideas including permaculture, Nature in peril and corporate evil?</strong></p>
<p>Certainly we see that most of the old myths no longer resonate with our psyches and are dying. Any new myths are in their infancy and so are hard to assess at this point. In order to be successful, they must “move” us, which is to say they will need to come from and resonate with the same inner parts of the psyche that gave the old myths wings. I’m not so sure how successful we can be in consciously thinking up “ideas” and trying to build myths around them, because historically the mythmaking process has worked the other way around, from the unconscious to ego consciousness. But as discussed in the context of two questions below, this process could evolve as our psyche itself develops so as to reintegrate suppressed and repressed unconscious content into our conscious selves.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, since so many of the old myths were based on our awe of and essential connection with nature, there is reason to believe that the new ones can too; we just need to dress them up in ways that we can better understand and accept using elements from our own culture. I agree with you that permaculture can have a role here, as can sustainability in general.</p>
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<p><strong>What is the meaning and value of the serpent in today’s mythic conversation?</strong></p>
<p>Serpent symbolism is probably the most complex and varied around, encompassing even various opposites (e.g., life vs. death, wisdom vs. evil, chaos vs. creation, causing and curing illness). This is because the various physical characteristics and behavior of serpents resonate with various parts of our psyche. Serpent symbolism is very much alive (it continues to be prominent in our dreams), so it has mythic value and should remain a component of myths. Given the multivalent nature of serpent symbolism and the fact that it is a product of our unconscious, however, it is hard to predict what myths may emerge containing serpent symbolism.</p>
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<p><strong>Where is the center of the world? Who owns it?!</strong></p>
<p>In the ancient world, a Center (sometimes actually “called the center of the world”) was a sacred spot where the divine, in the heavens and the underworld, connected with the earthly, including with us humans; it is where the 3 planes of the cosmos meet and thus lies at the heart of reality. Archetypically, it was also thought of as the place of creation. As such, a Center was a sacred place, where a temple or other sanctuary (including sacred trees) was situated and people could interact with their deities and experience transcendence. Thus, the Garden of Eden, sanctuary where humans interacted with God and gained the godlike knowledge of good and evil, also can be considered a Center. In reality, various peoples and communities each had at least one Center of their own. Such multiplicity of Centers was not considered a contradiction and nobody fought over the matter, because people were thinking mythologically: What was being experienced was sacred space, not earthly geographical space.</p>
<p>Such ancient way of viewing the matter provides the key for us too. Sacred space is existential for humans, and can exist anywhere on earth. The lesson to draw is that the Center really lies within ourselves, so it can be anywhere we are, when we are attuned to it. So each of us owns it (our personal Center), and we can own one collectively. The key to it for each of us is finding an approach to spirituality that works to make us, as Campbell said, transparent to transcendence (see question below).</p>
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<p><strong>Can you point-out a modern day Mother Nature myth?</strong></p>
<p>Cameron’s film Avatar brought these mythological themes out pretty well, albeit in Hollywoodized fashion. There the Na’vi lived close with nature and their spirituality reflected that: They had a mother earth goddess Eywa and connected with her at the sacred Tree of Souls, which was a means of transformation. In contrast, the humans had depleted earth’s environment and, through a corporation, were encroaching on Pandora without heed or care. The story thus touches on the issues that you asked about in question above.</p>
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<p><strong>Is a new universal creation story unfolding now? Or is it more likely a universal death story? Or are they being combined?</strong></p>
<p>Many older mythologies did combine creation/life and destruction/death, either in cycles of the cosmos (Indian, Maya) or in seasonal cycles, but in light of scientific explanations for such things it is not clear to me that this motif will endure in future myths, at least without substantial updating. But it still has a place. Although the matter of physical creation of the universe is now largely a subject for scientific study, the mere wonder of the universe (including how it came into being) and the mystery of life will continue to inspire us and can generate myths. The threat of universal death (e.g., environmental catastrophe, blowing ourselves up) should afford future mythological material since death itself in any form provides mythological material.</p>
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<p>From: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://communityalchemy.com/eWorkshop1/NM.pdf" target="blank">Building the Future with New Global Mythology, Free eWorkshop with ...</a> -<br/> “What Will/Should Be the New Myths? Global Myths?” by Arthur George</p>
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<p><strong>“I would venture to say that the folks on the anti-globalization, pro-local and pro-diversity side of the fence also tend to be the very people who most appreciate myths.” Please expand on this.</strong></p>
<p>I don’t have scientific poll data on this; this is just an observation based on my personal experience, including reading. In my experience, people who live closer to nature, embrace diversity in all its aspects, support local communities in their various aspects (culture, agriculture, businesses), have also been most sensitive to the things that generate myths, mythical content, and to knowing about and preserving myths.</p>
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<p><strong>“The above analysis confirms that we need to look to the same sources of creativity that have generated myths, spirituality, and art in the past: artists, writers, composers, musicians, and (more modernly) filmmakers. This is only natural because creativity springs largely from unconscious processes, which artists succeed in tapping for inspiration and then bring to concrete life for themselves and the rest of us.”</strong></p>
<p><strong>In my recent piece, entitled: “<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/2194" target="”blank”">Permaculture, Carl Jung and the New Archetypes” (+ PDF) by Willi Pa...</a>, I propose that the symbol and archetype dyadic is a two-way data flow between the collective unconscious and the collective conscious. What is your reaction? Also, in your quote above, are you not referring to Campbell’s Creative Mythology (also developed in my piece)?</strong></p>
<p>I see from your piece that you do see artists, etc., as playing a key role much as I do. The traditional Jungian approach is that myths proceed fundamentally from archetypes of the collective unconscious, while our conscious psyche refines that content into intelligible symbols and narratives. Your idea that the conscious psyche can also be involved in creating (new) archetypes is intriguing, and I look forward to seeing how that plays out in practice and in psychology theory. It would be great if that turns out to be the case, because we would have greater control (and responsibility) over the development of new myths and other elements of culture, and the new myths would evolve more quickly.</p>
<p>As to your second question, Campbell is indeed one of the influences on my thinking regarding this point and I do recall the passages from his Creative Mythology that you mention to that effect, but actually at the time I was thinking more of Chapter 3 of his later book, The Inner Reaches of Outer Space, which he entitled “The Way of Art.” There he argues that the way and methods of art make one (both artist and audience) transparent to transcendence, which brings forth myths as well as art.</p>
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<p><strong>“In the end, a key to having resonant, living global myths will require a corresponding effort to elevate (evolve) the human psyche itself so that we will be more receptive to global myths and better able to create them.”<br/> That’s a huge statement (of faith?). How do you propose the human race tackle this?</strong></p>
<p>Actually, I don’t think this is so huge (in terms of being a departure from mainstream thinking) or a matter of faith, and it seems to me to be generally consistent with what you are proposing as mentioned in previously, which also involves developing our consciousness in connection with generating new myths. As I mentioned, above, the Eden story is really about the elevation of our consciousness, which is a continuing historical process, as shown by a number thinkers, such as Jean Gebser in The Ever Present Origin, by Ken Wilber in his Up from Eden, and by Neumann in his works. The psychologist Jonathan Haidt recently brought forth data showing that in biological evolutionary terms our psyche has evolved more rapidly than we previously thought possible (The Righteous Mind, pp. 247-52). Jung himself, in his Symbols of Transformation (Collected Works, vol. 5, pp. 7-33), traces about how humans moved from fantasy thinking to more directed thinking in language in the space of the last 2 to 3 thousand years.</p>
<p>A problem resulting from our psychic development over that period, however, has been an over-dominance of ego consciousness resulting in the suppression and repression of unconscious content, which among other things has rendered our culture too masculine, warlike, and out of touch with nature. The human psyche needs to rise to higher levels where our conscious self better integrates the contents of our unconscious that in fact are seeking to break out into the open and be heard and accepted. Among other things, this would facilitate more and better new myths, as well as a more prominent “nature lens” that you write about. Describing exactly how to get there would take an entire book, and actually some thinkers such as Allan Combs and Ken Wilber have written extensively on this. I bullet point some suggestions at the end of my new book, and they include dream tending; shadow work; attention to our sense of humor; meditation practices; artistic/creative activities and maximizing stimulation from the art of others; in some cases psychological therapy; nourishing the feminine and nature; and conforming educational theory, institutions, and practice to this overall paradigm.</p>
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<p><span class="font-size-3"><strong>Questions for Willi from Art -</strong></span></p>
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<p><strong>What overall messages/truths that were advanced by some of old myths are no longer appropriate?</strong></p>
<p>I can’t say. I am not a trained mythological scholar. In all honesty, I would have to run an internet search to even come up with a specific Greek or American Indian or Norse myth for us. It is fair to say that many of the general lessons in the classic mythic data base are valid and wise. And I always support the mythological triad from Joseph Campbell: initiation, journey and hero. It’s just a matter a getting stuck in history or taking risks and plunging ahead for new myths.</p>
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<p><strong>Key Counter Question</strong>: What is a mythologist? What does a mythologist do? What are the tools of the trade?</p>
<p>The process of understanding “old myths” vs. “new myths” needs more investigation and debate. I explore this phenomenon in “Permaculture, Carl Jung and the New Archetypes.”</p>
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<p><strong>What new (replacement) messages/truths should the new myths advance, what will be their source, and to what extent can/should we specify this at this time?</strong></p>
<p>First, I think that the collaborative experience of building and sharing a new myth with one’s community – and then with the world – is key here.</p>
<p>Second, the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://openmythsource.com/myth-lab/" target="”blank”">8 Key Elements in my New Mythology scheme</a> include the following:</p>
<p>1. Localization – back to sustainability and community; self-sufficiency<br/> 2. Nature- Centric<br/> 3. Spiritual<br/> 4. Future-based<br/> 5. Universal themes(s) and message<br/> 6. Para-Normal in conflict or characters<br/> 7. Initiation, Journey and Hero<br/> 8. Permaculture & Transition: values and principles</p>
<p>Finally, two myth building tools are:</p>
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<p><strong>Artifact</strong> – The Artifact is a Nature-Human synergy; examples include graffiti, a bill board, historic sculpture, and a permaculture garden. Artifacts have special messages for people and their neighborhoods.</p>
<p><strong>Mythic Imprinting</strong> – From the Myth Lab, this iterative and transmutative process is grounded in the initiation, journey and hero work from Joseph Campbell framework and is one way that neighborhood artifacts can help the community generate new songs, poems and myths.</p>
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<p><strong>Similarly, in terms of the plots of myths (setting, environment, elements of the action) and their attendant symbols, what elements from the old myths are no longer appropriate and what new elements will the new myths likely feature? Or is it too difficult to predict?</strong></p>
<p>While I appreciate your need for detail and definitions here, my work with the new mythology is nascent at best! Most of my 57 New Myths illustrate a post-chaos tribal life in Nature by surviving permaculture / transition folks. The major plot line is love / survival. A permaculture symbol set is included “Permaculture, Carl Jung and the New Archetypes.”</p>
<p>Again, old stories can and do offer good elements and messages, just like the new myths, but their characterizations and settings are often no longer “hyper-sticky” in the Global Warming Age.</p>
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<p><strong>Why is permaculture central to your thinking about the new myths and global myths? Does this just reflect your personal interest in nature and mythology concerning nature, or to you really think it needs to be emphasized more traditional subjects of myths de-emphasized (priorities seem necessary), and if so why?</strong></p>
<p>Permaculture is a horse in need of shoes. It has a new Nature-based agri-design tract and some community building muscle. I like permaculture because I can integrate other solutions with it, like a new global spirituality that can be a global community practice and a terrific storyline augur for the New Mythology.</p>
<p>I understand the need to study and respect the past but I am confident that I have the right mix of vision drenched subjects, values and risk. My mythic priorities are clear: to reveal and redesign for a future based on the realities of the next 50 – 75 years of chaos on Earth – to keep the human race evolving in positive ways.</p>
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<p><strong>Your model and proposed kinds of new myths have a strong social-political component in the context of nature, the environment, and agriculture. Do you see a role for other new myths, also arising from nature, that would play a role in personal spiritual transformation and elevation of our consciousness, and if so what would be the archetypes/symbols here? For example, do you see a place for outer space to play such a role in the new myths, and if so how?</strong></p>
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<p>Food, shelter and community are really the only things that matter now and in the future. Outer space is too Hollywood for me! Nature will be gutted and maimed in much in the chaos era so we need to expand permaculture and the New Myths to heal it and us.</p>
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<p><strong>Your model calls for new myth-producing archetypes to develop on the conscious level through the operation of our consciousness, in addition to the traditional archetypes that evolved at the unconscious level as Jung maintained. To what extent do you consider your concept of the origin and nature of such archetypes to differ from or be similar to Jungian archetypes? Is this your own original idea, or do you find precedent for it in psychological studies or theories/writings?</strong></p>
<p>Great question. I guess you might say that I very recently “jumped over Jungian Falls” and into my own teetering raft! What I know about Jung is part Red Book images and the Wiki quote. I may still need to process what he means by “instinct.” I shoot flares. I do this occasionally when I want to test the jargon, academic egos and the soil.</p>
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<p><strong>In what sense is Permaculture, Nature, or “Permaculture & Nature” together an archetype according to your model, and how is this archetype produced? (This question concerns the stage before one starts writing myths based on the archetype as you describe in Stage Five of your piece.)</strong></p>
<p>Permaculture & Nature together does not make an archetype. Nor do these concepts individually or combined make a symbol. I took the definition of archetype from the Jung passage. I would ask that you visit my Myth Lab process to see how I write a New Myth.</p>
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<p><strong>You describe the new myths being stimulated by the 4 emotional connectors of fear, mistrust, hope, and love. How and why did you center upon these 4 and what others did you consider but not include? Did you find that these same 4 were central to myths in the past, or are these more particular to new myths?</strong></p>
<p>The idea of the 4 emotional connectors came to me almost instantly and it seemed to fit the model. I had other options. My work in alchemy undoubtedly plays a key role in these ideations and visions.</p>
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<p><strong>You mention Joseph Campbell as holding that, in Creative Mythology, the new myths will not originate in collective rituals that communicate to individuals, but will originate in artists and other creative individuals who have deep psychological experiences that they are then able to communicate to the collective as new living myths. How does this relate (or not) to your idea of new archetypes originating from the collective conscious, which in turn will generate new myths? Are these somehow the same processes, or perhaps two steps in the same process?</strong></p>
<p>My first thought is that humans are increasingly damaged soulfully and genetically. We live in greed and toxicity. In this sickness, sometimes new strains and voyages can occur. I understand that my manic-depression affords some creative tools and experiences that others may not have. My 5 new archetypes reflect both pain and hope on all levels, from local to world-wide.</p>
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<p><strong>In your diagram “The Garden Symbol in Old and New Mythology,” you mention things like local farmers markets and flea markets, community farms, and rooftop gardens as being symbols in the new myths. Please elaborate on how these will become (or have become) mythological symbols according to your idea of how archetypes from the collective conscious form such symbol? Also, how can such locally based things generate global myths?</strong></p>
<p>The collective symbols that you mention are rather new on the planet and will need more critique, acceptance and dispersion in the New Myth paradigm to have any real global traction. Also I believe that I conjured up the 5 archetypes first and then derived appropriate symbols to go with them. So the order in your question may need to be revisited.</p>
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<p><strong>In what sense can the new myths be “global”? How can they be achieved without compromising the diversity of cultures, languages, local traditions, etc. (such as you describe in the above-mentioned Garden diagram)?</strong></p>
<p>This is old/new fertile ground. One of my mission-critical themes is localization (from Transition) which certainty champions the diversity of cultures, languages, local traditions in local towns and sustainable communities.</p>
<p>Is it not possible to share our common struggles and symbols to co-develop and create new archetypes? Of course we drive the Internet together as a global community building and myth generator tool.</p>
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<p><span class="font-size-3"><strong>Bios -</strong></span></p>
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<p><strong>Arthur George</strong> is a cultural historian, mythologist, and prizewinning author who retired from a 30-year career as an international lawyer in order to follow his bliss by studying and writing and speaking about mythology and related subjects in order to enhance our knowledge about myth, heighten the importance and role of myth in contemporary society, enrich people’s lives, and better our world. He is the author (with his wife Elena) of The Mythology of Eden (published May 2014), which examines the biblical Garden of Eden story from the perspective of mythological studies, and is a frequent speaker at scholarly conferences and other events on mythological, religious, and related topics. He earlier authored (also with Elena) the definitive history of the city of St. Petersburg Russia (St. Petersburg: The First Three Centuries), which was awarded a literary prize by a jury of Russian scholars in 2005. He has a blog at <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.mythologymatters.wordpress.com/" title="www.mythologymatters.wordpress.com">www.mythologymatters.wordpress.com</a> and a website at<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.mythologymatters.com/" title="www.mythologymatters.com">www.mythologymatters.com</a>.</p>
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<p><strong>Willi Paul</strong> is active in the sustainability, permaculture, transition, sacred Nature, new alchemy and mythology space since the launch of <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/2115" target="blank">PlanetShifter.com Magazine</a> on EarthDay 2009, Willi’s network now includes four web sites, a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.linkedin.com/groups/New-Mythology-Permaculture-Transition-5080106?trk=my_groups-b-grp-v" target="blank">LinkedIn group</a>, 3 tweeter accounts, a G+ site, multiple blog sites, and multiple list serves.</p>
<p>In 1996 Mr. Paul was instrumental in the design of the emerging online community space in his <a rel="nofollow" href="http://sbs.mnsu.edu/ursi/" target="blank">Master’s Thesis</a>: “<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.casa.ucl.ac.uk/planning/articles11/ec.htm" target="blank">The Electronic Charrette.</a>.” He was active in many small town design visits with the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.minnesotadesignteam.org/" target="blank">Minnesota Design Team</a>.</p>
<p>Mr. Paul has released <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/2115" target="blank">16 eBooks</a>, 2197 + posts on PlanetShifter.com Magazine, and over <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/1423" target="blank">380 interviews</a> with global leaders. He has created <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/1855" target="blank">56 New Myths</a> to date and has been <a rel="nofollow" href="http://conservatoryofmagic.com/2013/06/01/interview-with-new-mythologys-willi-paul/" target="blank">interviewed</a> over 30 times in blogs and journals.</p>
<p>Willi earned his permaculture design certification in August 2011 at the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.upisf.com/" target="blank">Urban Permaculture Institute,</a> SF.</p>
<p>Please see his <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.jcf.org/new/index.php?categoryid=37&blogid=24" target="blank">cutting-edge article</a> at the Joseph Campbell Foundation and his <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0FAEA97D12725FB0&action_edit=1&feature=view_all" target="blank">pioneering videos</a> on YouTube. His current focus is <a rel="nofollow" href="http://openmythsource.com/myth-lab/" target="blank">Myth Lab</a> - a project that Willi presented at his third <a rel="nofollow" href="http://newmythologist.com/workshops/" target="blank">Northwest Permaculture Convergence</a> in Portland, OR.</p>
<p>Willi’s consulting work is at <a rel="nofollow" href="http://newmythologist.com/" target="blank">NewMythologist.com</a></p></div>"Permaculture Ad Council for the Transition Age" by Willi Paul, Planetshifter.com Magazinehttps://depthpsychologyalliance.com/group/new-global-mythology/forum/topics/permaculture-ad-council-for-the-transition-age-by-willi-paul2014-04-26T15:16:42.000Z2014-04-26T15:16:42.000ZWilli Paulhttps://depthpsychologyalliance.com/members/WilliPaul<div><p></p>
<div class="field field-type-image field-field-image"><div class="field-items"><div class="field-item odd"><a href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/2178" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.planetshifter.com/uploads/imagecache/standard/centerspace_35.png?width=494" width="494" class="align-center"/></a></div>
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<p><span class="font-size-4"><strong>"<a href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/2178" target="blank">Permaculture Ad Council for the Transition Age</a>" by Willi Paul, Planetshifter.com Magazine</strong></span></p>
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<p>Let's put our heads together and start a new country up<br/>Up underneath the river bed we'll burn the river down<br/>This is where they walked, swam<br/>Hunted, danced and sang<br/>Take a picture here Take a souvenir<br/><strong>Cuyahoga</strong>, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifes_Rich_Pageant" target="”blank”">REM</a></p>
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<p>* * * * * * *</p>
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<p>We all have a global and ongoing outreach challenge to bring the <strong><a href="http://www.patternliteracy.com/resources/ethics-and-principlestarget=%E2%80%9Dblank%E2%80%9D">ethics and principles of permaculture</a></strong> and our <strong><a href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/2157" target="”blank”">Transition values</a></strong> to more schools, homes and businesses.</p>
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<p>We can create and implement educational ad campaigns for permaculture using existing tools and <strong><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_Council" target="”blank”">models</a></strong>.</p>
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<p>What <strong><a href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/2157" target="”blank”">symbols are powerful</a></strong>?</p>
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<p>Key to this meta-work is translation or <strong><a href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/2170" target="”blank”">using what exists today</a></strong> and changing it for the better:</p>
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<p><span class="font-size-3"><strong>“Thinking in Transition; growing with Permaculture.”</strong></span></p>
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<p>Please see the <strong>four poster designs</strong> in this post that may help to kick-start a <strong>Permaculture Ad Council.</strong> If you are interested in discussing the permaculture ad council project, please contact me:</p>
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<p>Willi Paul<br/><strong>New Mythologist & Transition Entrepreneur</strong><br/>newmythologist.com | PlanetShifter.com Magazine | openmythsource.com<br/>@planetshifter @openmythsource @newmythologist<br/>415-407-4688 | pscompub at gmail.com</p></div>“A Love for Creation” – Invite & Interview with Permaculturist Penny Livingston - Commonweal Garden, Bolinas, CA by Willi Paul, Planetshifter.com Magazinehttps://depthpsychologyalliance.com/group/new-global-mythology/forum/topics/a-love-for-creation-invite-interview-with-permaculturist-penny2014-03-30T00:12:33.000Z2014-03-30T00:12:33.000ZWilli Paulhttps://depthpsychologyalliance.com/members/WilliPaul<div><p></p>
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<div class="field-items"><div class="field-item odd"><a href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/2173" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.planetshifter.com/uploads/imagecache/standard/centerspace_34.jpg" class="align-full"/></a></div>
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<p><span class="font-size-3"><strong>“A Love for Creation” – Invite & Interview with Permaculturist Penny Livingston - <a href="http://www.regenerativedesign.org/garden/about-the-garden#.UzdREs5TXj4" target="”blank”">Commonweal Garden</a>, Bolinas, CA</strong></span></p>
<p><span class="font-size-3"><strong>by Willi Paul, <a href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/2173" target="_blank">Planetshifter.com Magazine</a></strong></span></p>
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<p><strong>Penny Livingston presents:</strong> <br/>“Discover how permaculture design can play a central role in building strong communities.”<br/><strong>Register for her <a href="http://evolverlearninglab.com/collections/courses/products/philosophy-of-permaculture-solutions-for-resilient-community" target="”blank”">Evolver Talk</a></strong> <br/>Monday, March 31<br/>5:00 p.m. PST</p>
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<p><strong>Program Description -</strong></p>
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<p>“Focusing on healthy solutions for people and the planet, permaculture is a method of design that builds both healthy ecosystems and supports human settlements. Permaculture has made a powerful global impact, finding deep resonance and acceptance in parts of the world in the direst condition. It is in alignment with the beliefs and practices of indigenous traditions, and a forward looking answer to the questions that consume the health of our planet and its inhabitants. There is a growing community committed to finding solutions to living and benefiting the earth, developing tools and skills to grow food, build homes, harvest water, and design human settlements. As a movement focused on positive solutions, permaculture practitioners are profoundly serving the world and providing solutions to world leaders.</p>
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<p>Join us for an <a href="http://evolverlearninglab.com/collections/courses/products/philosophy-of-permaculture-solutions-for-resilient-community" target="”blank”">Evolver Talk</a> with Penny Livingston, founder of the Regenerative Design Institute and one of the world's leading permaculture practitioners. In this live, interactive video session, you will be introduced to the design principles, methods and strategies of permaculture. Learn practical ways to bring the wisdom of permaculture into your own life, and into the life of your community -- the neighbors you engage with, the networks you are a part of, the organizations you participate in. This 90 minute session will give you the overview of what is commonly covered in a two-week permaculture course. You will be part of the discussion, able to ask your questions on camera, just like a Skype call. If you happen to miss it live, you can view a video recording at any time.”</p>
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<p><br/><strong>Interview with Penny by Willi -</strong></p>
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<p><strong>Do you see a link between permaculture and transition movement? Can we integrate the two?</strong></p>
<p>There is a direct link between the transition movement and permaculture. The transition concept was originally conceived as a design project for a PDC Rob Hopkins, a British permaculture teacher, was conducting in Kinsale Ireland. He replicated it with in Totnes England with Raven Grey, who now lives here in West Marin, and who also brought it to Cornwall. It’s important for us to remember our lineages. This is the “culture” part of permaculture.</p>
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<p><strong>Can you practice permaculture without access to land? Examples please?</strong></p>
<p>Yes, There are many examples as permaculture is a design system, it’s not about gardening tips, as Bill Mollison would say. You can use permaculture design to design your business or livelihood. There are people doing business consulting using permaculture design. I used it to create stability for myself by having a number of different businesses, so when one was slow, I had others to fall back on. I did landscape design and construction, I had a bed and breakfast cottage, I was a weaver and sold woven items at craft fairs and stores; I did consulting and teaching. Also there have been some investment companies started by permaculturists to help people put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. Writers, telling the story about permaculture or film makers, artists and musicians all play a role in the permaculture world.</p>
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<p><strong>Stories, Songs, New Mythologies! Are you listening to folk / rock bands lauding the power and might of permaculture?</strong></p>
<p>There are some folk musicians that are singing the story in a wonderful way. <a href="http://dianepatterson.org/" target="”blank”">Diane Patterson</a> comes to mind. <a href="http://travisknapp.yolasite.com/" target="”blank”">Travis Knapp</a> and <a href="http://growdoit.com.au/" target="”blank”">Charlie McGee</a> are great.</p>
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<p><strong>What are your organizational strategies when combating climate change?</strong></p>
<p>My organizational strategy is to walk the talk, work in my community, manifest and be the example by creating a place people can come to experience a permacultural life directly. To have a place where people can experience eating healthy food in a non-toxic environment, utilizing permaculture practices and adaptive strategies for an unstable climate is very powerful. Even before it started raining our cisterns were full and we were good for the year here because we have been putting in water harvesting and storage systems at Commonweal Garden, using the methods we teach in our courses, for the last 10 years.</p>
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<p>We have been working in our community for 25 years. We decided we wanted to start a group 20 years ago called “Friends of the Farmers”. The plan was to find about 2000 people in the community what would support local initiatives including businesses, farmers, and political issues relating to our sustainability in West Marin. When we had our first meeting it turned out everyone wanted to be a farmer so we started West Marin Growers Group which is now Marin Organic a fabulous advocacy and educational organization. Within West Marin Growers group we organized (inspired by one of our members, Janet Brown) the first community meal where everything (I mean everything) was produces in Marin. If the salt wasn’t produced in Marin, there was no salt in the meal. It was delicious and started the conversation around local food in our community.</p>
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<p>West Marin Growers group started the first farmers market. When there was no media coverage we (my husband James Stark mainly) started the <a href="http://www.kwmr.org/" target="”blank”">first radio station in West Marin</a>. It’s now broadcasting on the web and has won some awards. This all has brought the community together to create our own Transition initiate even though our “official” Transition group isn’t very active at the moment. Perhaps it isn’t necessary here because we are all living it anyway. All of the emergency systems are on Solar.</p>
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<p>We have a constructed wetland for the village sewage. We are surrounded by our food and have protected our water systems. Our village runs our own public utility. This has taken vision and community involvement for many years. Personally, I have been serving on an advisory board where we were giving away about $350,000 a year toward climate solutions. We have funded <a href="http://350.org/" target="”blank”">350.org</a>, Indigenous Environmental Network, Marin Permaculture, United Roots, Bay Localize, Black Mesa Water Coalition, Blue Climate Solutions, Marin Carbon Project to name just a few. It’s a very long list (see <a href="http://www.liafund.org/" title="http://www.liafund.org">http://www.liafund.org</a>).</p>
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<p>We gave all the money away because we believe it’s more important to use it and make it available now rather than dole it out over time.</p>
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<p><strong>What is the status of teaching permaculture in public / private schools in NorCal?</strong></p>
<p>It seems to be growing. We have school groups that come to our farm on a regular basis. High school kids especially are really lit up about it. There needs to be more.</p>
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<p><strong>In my experience, it is fair to say that a small cadre of teachers (“experts?”) have dominated the PDC scene. Do you see any danger in this?</strong></p>
<p>All I know is that I’ve been doing my best to train a lot of teachers who are now teaching actively from Sonoma to Santa Cruz and beyond. I don’t believe there is such a thing as a permaculture “expert”. I’ve been called that and it makes me cringe. I teach 1 course a year in the US at our farm in Bolinas. It’s coming up <a href="http://www.regenerativedesign.org/programs/two-week-permaculture-design-intensive#.UzcflqhdVrZ" target="”blank”">May 30- June 14</a>. Most of the courses I see offered in California are being taught by my students so I’m not sure what you mean by a “small cadre of teachers”. Anyone who wants to organize and teach a course can if they have a certificate and the skills.</p>
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<p><strong>Where is capitalism and permaculture headed at <a href="http://www.regenerativedesign.org/garden/about-the-garden#.UzdREs5TXj4" target="”blank”">Commonweal Garden</a>?</strong></p>
<p>Wierd question. We’re a non-profit. Yes we need money because it costs us money to maintain this place and we want to keep it nice for people to come here to experience this living example. This is my home and I open it up to the public. I make a fraction of the money doing this compared to what I make when I consult or work on projects. I love this garden. It means more to me than money.</p>
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<p><strong>Do you agree that permaculture (and Transition!) could benefit from new, formalized <a href="http://www.planetshifter.com/node/2169" target="”blank”">celebrations, annual events and holidays</a>?</strong></p>
<p>Yes, everyone can... regardless if they are involved with permaculture or Transition.</p>
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<p><strong>Can you identify any “traditions” in the permaculture movement?</strong></p>
<p>No, as permaculture is a design system and it shows up differently in every culture and community. Hopefully the traditions that are showing up are based within the local culture. I don’t see any specific traditions that cross cultural lines. Permaculture practices look very different everywhere I go.</p>
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<p><strong>Water; compost; in what ways does permaculture benefit from the labor of animals?</strong></p>
<p>I’m not sure I understand. Animals are important for our compost if that’s what you mean. We have goats and chickens that contribute to that. They also help maintain the land by eating invasive plants. Goats LOVE poison hemlock and yes, we can drink the milk. Chickens eat bugs.</p>
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<p><strong>Permaculture training (PDC) is without a doubt a highly competitive marketplace. How do you market yourself and your organizations to get students?</strong></p>
<p>Most of it is through word of mouth, and we use the internet.</p>
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<p><strong>Some see permaculture without a real chance to form a unified global movement, even calling it just ‘intellectual babble.’ Thoughts?</strong></p>
<p>Don’t know about that. Haven’t heard that in my circles as we don’t talk about it we are too busy doing it.</p>
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<p><strong>Do we need more cob benches?</strong></p>
<p>Are you being sarcastic? <strong>[Willi – No! ]</strong></p>
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<p><strong>Are there issues in the permaculture listservs that do not belong in the mix?</strong></p>
<p>I don’t belong to any of the list serves except the Bay Area ones so I can’t speak to that.</p>
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<p><strong>What are the current full-time (with benefits) jobs that are available in the permaculture sector now?</strong></p>
<p>Most permaculture people I know are free lancers as they don’t want to be tied down to a “job”. There are some landscaping companies and design firm (permaculture IS about design) that are pretty successful and offer benefits.</p>
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<p><strong>Are online PDC course really valid experiences?</strong></p>
<p>If done well, I think they can be. There needs to be a human presence, with opportunities to ask questions and get feedback. Just watching videos is not a PDC. Also a PDC requires a certificate and to do that the instructor needs to have some relationship with the student. Any online “PDC” that is not offering a certificate with feedback from the instructor is not a valid PDC.</p>
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<p><strong>Are you a spiritual being? If yes, how is this expressed in your class and consulting work?</strong></p>
<p>Of course I am a spiritual being. There is a spiritual component in my life. It’s not something I speak about publicly. It dwells within my inner landscape. We lead people to connect deeply with nature and creation here at our garden. This leads to people having their own spiritual experiences. Permaculture design, if taught correctly, can lead to a profound growth in awareness to the natural world and love of creation. It is what makes permaculture so effective for restoration. One needs to understand and connect with what they are trying to restore. Some people may consider this spiritual.</p>
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<p><strong>Please critique the general idea of the “permaculture convergence.” Any recent positive or negative experiences to share?</strong></p>
<p>I like the idea of people coming together for face time and meeting each other’s humanness. I like more networking and schmoozing rather than talking heads and structural presentations. That’s just me… Others may like it. I prefer to use the convergences to meet people. Much better than email ;)</p>
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<p><strong>Do permaculturists need to take seats in local City administrations to advance the movement?</strong></p>
<p>I think that is a fantastic idea. I’m currently sitting on the Building Appeals Board for the County of Marin. Great way to get your voice heard and make policy changes.</p>
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<p><strong>How is permaculture addressing the hardest hit communities in this country? Any success stories?</strong></p>
<p>It is helping to revitalize Oakland. The people who started <strong>Planting Justice</strong>, Ecoliteracy program for <strong>United Roots</strong>, <strong>Peoples Grocery</strong> and others have come through our programs and are doing great work in the East Bay. There is a great project <strong>Starhawk</strong> has been working on in Bayview Hunters Point in San Francisco. Detroit has some great things happening that is very hard to keep up with. The story is still unfolding. The success lies in the hearts of the people who are energized with hope and inspiration doing good work, whatever it is, in their communities and abroad.</p>
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<p><strong>Can you give us some recent examples of difficulties project teams had in satisfying the <a href="http://www.patternliteracy.com/resources/ethics-and-principles" target="”blank”">permaculture ethics and principles</a>?</strong></p>
<p>No.</p>
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<p><strong><a href="http://www.regenerativedesign.org/instructors/penny-livingston-stark#.Uzbtys5TXj4" target="”blank”">Penny Livingston’s Bio</a> –</strong></p>
<p>Ms. Livingston is an internationally recognized as a prominent permaculture teacher, designer, and speaker. Penny has been teaching internationally and working professionally in the land management, regenerative design, and permaculture development field for 25 years and has extensive experience in all phases of ecologically sound design and construction as well as the use of natural non-toxic building materials. She specializes in site planning and the design of resource-rich landscapes integrating, rainwater collection, edible and medicinal planting, spring development, pond and water systems, habitat development and watershed restoration for homes, co-housing communities, businesses, and diverse yield perennial farms.</p>
<p>With her husband James Stark, and in collaboration with <a href="http://www.commonweal.org/" target="”blank”">Commonweal</a> — a cancer health research and retreat center — Penny co-manages Commonweal Garden, a 17-acre organic and certified salmon-safe farm in Bolinas, California. In addition, Penny and James are stewarding and working to restore 200 acres of land in Trinity County, California. Penny co-created the Ecological Design Program and its curriculum at the San Francisco Institute of Architecture, and she co-founded the West Marin Grower’s Group, the West Marin Farmer’s Market, and the Community Land Trust Association of Marin. Penny has also worked with the Marin County Community Development Agency and Planning Department to develop recommendations on sustainability for updating the Community Plan. Penny is a founding member of the Natural Building Colloquium, a national consortium of professional natural builders, creating innovations in straw bale, cob, timber frame, light clay, natural non-toxic interior finishes and other methods using natural and bio-regionally appropriate materials for construction.</p>
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<p><strong>Connections –</strong><br/>Penny Livingston<br/>penny at regenerativedesign.org<br/>Commonweal Garden<br/><strong><a href="http://www.regenerativedesign.org" target="_blank">Regenerative Design Institute</a></strong><br/>PO Box 923<br/>Bolinas, CA 94924</p>
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