When C.G.Jung visited Nazi Germany in 1933, he talked with "people of unquestionable idealism" who thought a "great revolution" was taking place there, even though there were some "unavoidable abuses". (from Volume 10 of Jung's Collected Works)
In February this year, the huge demonstrations of Euromaidan movement in Kiev, capital of Ukraine, brought about a régime change which some see as an idealistic revolution, others as a fascist coup.
It is undeniable that an elected leader was deposed, that rightwing paramilitaries played a part in the change, that people who fought on the fascist side in WWII have been glorified, that memorials to anti-fascist soldiers have been destroyed...
What sort of European identity is being expressed in this movement? Is it a return of collective shadow?
Replies
For people who don't care or aren't worried as long as drones aren't visiting them: What would happen if someone violently removed the American president (I don't know, because of war crimes all around the world?) and supported the republican or democratic side? The candidate supported by the foreigners would win the next elections. Would America in that case remain whole? No, it would fall apart along the "Bible Belt" or some other line. Would you support a civil war in that case?
It's sad how little people understand and care.
A foreign power which wanted violent regime change in the USA would need to have powerful allies inside the USA... Events in Ukraine are impossible to understand without looking carefully at the internal political movements: the Maidan movement and its opponent, the Antimaidan movement.
The Maidanists have unfortunately managed to persuade much of the world that they are innocent and idealistic democrats.
I think part of the reason people have trouble understanding, is a tendency to forget about the "mass" character of the nazi movement in Germany and the fascist movement in Italy: the big demonstrations it held, and the level of support it got from middle class people. Jung's account of the psychology of National Socialism is helpful here.
The anti-fascist alliances that arose in the thirties and during WWII are also too little understood.
http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/2014/05/01/the-reason-why-there-w...
For anyone who is reading this comment wondering why I added that link: skip the politics if you want and there is an interesting reminder (the majority of people here know about that experiment) on group think. Since I am more or less (it's complicated to choose one side) on the liberal (Socialist? Again, attaching names to opinions can be very tricky.) side of the fence, I find another text seemingly written by a soldier much more disturbing (I can't find it anymore, but I've read it). It's about all kinds of foreigners (foreigners from my previous comment don't have to be directly involved and they even don't have to exist), Muslims, and socialists (I guess Obama is, in that interpretation, all that).
The long story short - The situation in many countries is messed up and there are all kinds of interpretations of what is going on. There are people in America from both sides of the "conflict" who are sick and tired of their current president for totally different reasons, so obviously America isn't the country of sunshine and butterflies with solutions for global problems that just need to be copied from there. Serbia is a story for itself. It doesn't help that the previous century was the "fastest" in the history of the planet.
I've started here http://www.depthpsychologyalliance.com/group/new-global-mythology/f... a similar discussion topic, but I suppose this one is more civilized (Should it be?).
It's actually the western Ukraine that has separated from the rest of the country. CIA could have imposed violence (the Orange Revolution) there 10 years ago just as it happened now. The western Ukraine is a strange mixture of conservative mentality (Kiev as the old Russian capital, the word "Russian" has its origin from Ukraine, what they call Ukrainian language is actually an archaic form of Russian...) and Polish influences (love or hate your foreign masters, but they will influence your language and cuisine). If you call this freak http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera a national hero, accept the consequences. On the other hand, sociopaths (the reason why the Orange Revolution has failed) are just what foreign imperialists need in order to exploit your economy and drown you in debts.
Thanks for the link to the book. I hadn't seen it before and it does look interesting.
"Is it possible to individuate AND collectively do the right thing at the right moment?"
I think the answer is yes. An example to consider is Nelson Mandela and the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa. Mandela seems to have had a mature sense of his individual role and individual responsibility, as well as a sense of solidarity with others in the movement.
The ANC and its allies (including the South African Communists) overcame the old racist system and reached an inclusive democracy by means of collective action, but also by the efforts of individuals who used reason as well as emotion, and could seek common ground with people who had been their enemies.
I'm glad to read a "depth psychological" take on that situation. I am very skeptical about everything, including my understanding of what is going on. It's disturbing to be reminded how much the people from western countries hate Russians (Orthodox Slavs in general)?
The same thing (fascism) happened in 1990s in Croatia (I am a refugee) and Kosovo. I remember when "you" were bombing us (ethnic cleansing of Croatia took place 4 years before that) and when the racist in me thought: "You are not supposed to kill and hate us. We are white and we live in Europe". It's a very sad situation when people are killing other people because they are convinced that they are actually "freeing their minds". In that political vacuum when the "pro-Russian" side lost his dictator there was a small chance for the people to finally imagine a more functional future. It was difficult considering that vulture both from the west and the east. Putin doesn't really need and has never really supported a territory (eastern Ukraine) where "the power to the people" and collective understanding of the situation is taking place.
I like this sort of American "democracy" (including this virtual place) where you can say whatever you want. On the other hand, it's a paradox that you are free to release your anger (Become less angry and dangerous?) while other people are distracted and "busy".
So sorry to hear about your experiences of ethnic cleansing and bombing.
I'm of west european ancestry, and am a citizen of Australia, which is part of the western alliance, but I've had concerns about western militarism since the days of the war in Vietnam.
Europe has many narratives about heroes from the west fighting enemies based in the south and east. These narratives go back at least to the days when the Greeks were fighting the Persians, and then they continue through the crusades.
Regarding democracy, I agree it's a very good thing to be able to say whatever you want. And elections can be an excellent way to resolve political conflicts within a state without having a civil war.
On the other hand, democracy doesn't necessarily prevent wars between states and can in fact be a bad excuse for such wars. The ancient Greek city states invented the word "democracy", but that didn't stop them fighting against each other and against other countries they labelled as "barbarian".
Regarding your specific point about hatred of Russians and other Orthodox Slavs, it's probably easier to stereotype people as enemies if their language and religion are unfamiliar. And unfortunately only a small minority of English-speaking people have studied Slavic languages or the Orthodox tradition in Christianity.
Another factor in western animosity towards Russians and Serbs is perception that these countries were strongholds of Communism, which was much demonised in the west during the Cold War and still is demonised today.
I've been reading lately this book Empire: http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/negri/HAREMI_unprintable.pdf. Unfortunately, the authors use a very unpopular word for description of their ideology, but I like how they discuss about "production of subjectivity". I agree about democracy and how (much) the masses think, but it would be nice if there was enough of free space for collective individuation where people understand and agree rather than obey. Is it possible to individuate AND collectively do the right thing at the right moment?
-
1
-
2
-
3
-
4
of 4 Next