Education Institution

Thought-Provoking "chat" going on now....

Posted by Depth Alliance on January 9, 2014 at 8:32pm

Chat-Following-Alchemy-Webinar-1.doc (See below for info on this document)

Hi all. It's Jan. 9, just after the first webinar and a few folks are having a great chat about it in the "Main Room" (bottom right) of the screen. The chat function is live, so when the discussion ends, it's over and not usually saved. However, we'll try to post a version later if you miss it.

If you're on now, feel free to jump in....

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  • Rob Cohen January 10, 2014 at 9:42pm

    I cannot see the word file ... so for those who want to see the conversation without downloading here is the full text as requested of our first night chat:

    • The following is a text chat between myself ROBERT COHEN (listed as ME) and DEBRA KING that we had in the sites MAIN CHAT ROOM right after the first HILLMAN Alchemical Psychology class. The moderator asked if we could save the text and post it in the forum. With a few edits / deletions that conversation is saved and posted below.



      Me
       hello
    • is this the discussion for the hillman alchemy?
    • 8:40 PM
    • Debra King
I am new here, but it looks like we're in the right place :)
    •  
    • Me 
hi. I'm trying to get into the hillman discussion. i just finished the first class.
    • 8:44 PM
    •  
    • Me 
OH I think I see. It is a threaded discussion board not this live chat room.
    • Oh well. Hi Debra.
    • I'm new here too.
    •  
    • Debra King
 Hi Rob, yes I am in the class too
    • is the discussion somewhere else?
    •  
    • Me
 yeah its at the bottom of the page but it is just posting and replying... like on facebook. not a chat room like this.
    • so far no replies... just 3 topic posts.
    •  
    • Debra King
 oh...did you like the class?
    •  
    • Me 
it drove me crazy. :)
    •  
    • Debra King
 because?
    •  
    • Me 
I liked a lot of parts but I was dealing with lots of frustration ... not the cracking.
    • Well...
    •  
    • Debra King
 yes. was it the discussion?
    • 8:49 PM
    • Me
 No, I wanted to get into the book a lot. I also found that Robert lead a lot which was OK, I love Robert, but I wanted more from Patricia’s lead. But moreover, If you watched the intro video from a few weeks back, I found that most of the value for me came from the Q & A at the end ... and now I see that is because the questions were from non-therapists, non-experts but were intelligent quesetions .....
    • The questions tonight were all therapy based. ie. Taking for granted having knowledge already on the subject.
    •  
    • Debra King 
Ditto! I am not a therapist, but have been reading Hillman for a long time... I think their being therapists got in the way, a little bit
    •  
    • Me
 My question would have been more like ....
    • We live in a world where the majority of people in the west … even when studying this … are coming from a place where we have a lost, even dormant, imaginal function… there is no understanding of image or poetry at all in the majority of the people. (I find poetry really tough most of the time but am working on this.) So as you talk about the image / poetic meaning, etc., it is something that many of us are trying to understand but do not actually know or experience, or know when we are. I’d ask... Can you comment on this and try to include that there are many of us that are hungry for the imaginal and sense its absence but as yet do not have it and do not know often what you are talking about when talking about image. And part of the exploration of this material for me is about how to take a person from lost imaginal function to developed imaginal function. We need to understand all the process. Ie. How does a typical hyper rational western person writing only bad poetry become a person who develops in their relation to image so that they can become great poets?
    •  
    • Me
 Oh good to know you Debra. Yeah i've been reading Hillman for a while now and before that Corbin.
    •  
    • Debra King
 k.. go ahead Rob
    •  
    • Me
 OK could you see my whole question?
    • much more about defining terms and guiding people into the imaginal who are starting from zero /completely outside it.
    •  
    • Debra King 
I think we are in agreement. Hillman begins with the problem of language
    • I'm not sure what he would say about therapy...
    •  
    • Me
 yes.
    •  
    • Debra King 
because he didn't see it as helpful
    • I think that it was telling when someone asked about the therapists also entering alchemy in the therapy.
    •  
    • Me
 yeah eventually he saw therapy as limited or not helpful enough. I am a film producer and am researching how to translate this idea of the lost soul and how to get it back into a narrative story. I've been researching the history of it... what hillman found as well... Ficino, Plato, etc. for years.
    •  
    •  
    • Debra King
 interesting
    • are you familar at all with Michael Meade?
    •  
    • Me
 Yes. I have his alchemy audio and one of his books. I hope to interview him some time.
    •  
    • Debra King
 great! I attended a few conferences with Hillman, Meade and Bly
    •  
    • Me 
lucky ducky!!!!!!!
    • weren't those men's groups. They had others?
    •  
    • Debra King
 they would have supplied great material for a movie
    • these were opened to anyone
    • the audience participation was very dynamic
    •  
    • Me
 oh yeah. I think it will make great film material. IT is shocking to me that there is NO film on this at all.... and i don't mean related film. I mean film STORIES addressing the loss of soul directly.
    •  
    • Debra King
 Those three invited that
    • I agree...
    • I blog about Hillman's work because I want to see the work move on and out into culture.
    •  
    • Me 
I made my own temp audio recording of the talk tonight and find it much easier to listen without the video. Way better. Somehow the video is distracting for me.
    •  
    • Me
 A blog. Awesome. Send me the blog address.
    •  
    • Debra King
 ptero9.com
    • so the cracking was gone from the audio only?
    •  
    • Me
 the cracking is there but way less distracting without the video, for me.
    •  
    • Debra King
 Therapy is problematic because of the rules...and now days the liability
    • so, perhaps Hillman's idea of being radical and heated is difficult for therapy
    • but the world needs something radical, yes?
    •  
    • Me
 Yes. Wow your blog has an entry on Corbin too. Glad to meet you. :)
    •  
    • Debra King
 I just started reading Corbin
    • I read Tom Cheetham's book first
    • I am now reading Alone with the Alone..have you read him? yes, glad to meet you.
    •  
    • Me
 Corbin is dense but wonderful. I drove all the way from Tucson to Salt Lake City to see / hear Tom Cheetham talk at Jung Society in November... well worth it.
    •  
    • Debra King
 jealous! his book is fantastic!
    •  
    • Me
 yes. very good. There is one other book that was recommended to me from years back by poets who were trying to steer me right...
    • Eros and Magic in the Renaissance by Couliano. It is the history of the final destruction of the soul. Amazing.
    •  
    • Debra King 
ok, I'll look for it, thanks.
    • I discovered Hillman through Jung, like a lot of people
    •  
    • Me
 i am currently reading the "hillman style soul-bio" of Rilke.
    •  
    • Debra King
 Good stuff?
    •  
    • Me
 amazing. I have high hopes it will answer some of my questions about how we can go from no poetic / imaginal consciousness to getting back into that space.
    • which is what I wanted from tonight... but hope that will come more in the future.
    •  
    • Debra King
 Yes, that is my focus too
    •  
    • Me
 your blog says you have a facebook page (even though you don't use it too much)
    •  
    • Debra King
 ..because having that perspective is life changing
    •  
    • Me
 i'm still looking to find and deepen that perspective and find a way to help the film viewing western culture see this soul loss and the value of the reclamation.
    •  
    • Debra King
 Yes, I have a public page The Ptero Card
    •  
    • Lera Welch
 this kind of work does go on in many different ways with different methods, his uniqueness is refreshing.
    •  
    • Debra King 
a documentary film or?
    •  
    • Me 
I am a documentary producer in the past but a DOC would be 100% wrong for this. It is an episodic tv series for like HBO.
    • Debra King
 Hi Lera!
    • cool! Did they produce Lost?
    •  
    • Lera Welch
 Hello Debra. great discussion.
    •  
    • Debra King
 yes...Lera, jump in if you'd like
    •  
    • Me
 Lost was an ABC I think.
    •  
    • Debra King
 oh, that was a great series, not to change the subject. HBO is a pretty big deal
    •  
    • Me 
I got an emmy nomination for my HBO doc so they are interested in my treatment.
    •  
    • Debra King
 It would be great to see Hillman's work get that kind of exposure
    •  
    • Me 
I know right. I have the format and architecture down. I am still working out the absence of experience of the soul realm in myself.
    •  
    • Lera Welch
 This kind of material would be good to be filmed from real life stories of people having alchemical experiences in sessions. But language has to be where the average HBO viewer would get it.
    •  
    • Debra King
 Yes Lera, and most TV gets dumbed down, especially the language
    •  
    • Lera Welch
 we should all meet and cook something up
    •  
    • Debra King
 Dare I say it, I have the experience...
    • yes, we should work on this
    •  
    • Me
 yes Lera very true but that would be a Documentary and the whole point of this stuff for me on my project is that all this is IMAGE based and Film is IMAGE but no narrative stories in film have ever addressed this. It would be a huge shift.
    •  
    • Debra King
 you need a story, right?
    •  
    • Lera Welch
 why not there is always a first time
    •  
    • Me
 No I have the story. I have the whole thing. Just not the full experience.
    • I have been working on this project for 10 years. The blueprint is very detailed, well designed and refined to contain the needed elements to make it work.
    •  
    • Debra King
 what do you mean by experience? Do you mean a personal experience of an alchemical nature?
    •  
    • Me 
I have had a life long experience of being blocked, which has been the impetus for much of my searching. But in the last 6 months it has finally made more sense since “diagnosed” as PTSD (block is freeze) ... my imaginal function is somewhat buried behind this poison of the imagination, as is the culture’s. I am still working to get into it, let alone fully.
    •  
    • Debra King
 oh sorry to hear
    •  
    • Me
 eh. That’s ok. its developmental PTSD, ie. I've had it since childhood but only now see how it affects me (and the culture) .... the wounded feminine in the culture.
    • 9:20 PM
    • Debra King
 yes, lots of distortion of power in the culture
    •  
    • Me
 yes its the polarity of everything .... good / bad - masculine / feminine which is missing the third element between body and spirit... which is the imaginal soul
    •  
    • Debra King
 the bridge, I think of it as a bridge. But I like that Hillman calls it a perspective, a way of seeing
    •  
    • Me
 yes. I like both. the bridge is such a visually beautiful image for me, but it is a perspective.
    •  
    • Debra King
 Hey ROb, what is the name of your documentary?
    •  
    • Debra King 
the one that was nominated...
    •  
    • Me
 my doc is called Hacking Democracy.

     

    • Debra King
 Very cool!

     

    • Community Education - Alliance
 Hey, sorry to interrupt, but do you all mind if we copy this discussion and make it available in the Forum in case anyone else can get value out of your lively comments?

     

    • Debra King 
I don't mind...
    •  
    • Me
 yeah I was thinking about that myself but the reality is there is some stuff I would want to edit. I don't want my full film pitch etc. just out there yet. . And I’d be less complain-y in an official post. J... If it is ok with Debra I'll cut and paste it all and delete the stuff I don't want and then email it too you. is that cool Moderator?
    •  
    • Community Education - Alliance
 Thank you. It's exciting to see such passionate and spontaneous discourse. Rob is right: it's not the same in the forum. Its much slower...
    •  
    • Debra King
 Very cool!
    •  
    • Me
 the forum can and will get hopping. Where can I email you Moderator?
    •  
    • Community Education - Alliance
 Bonnie Bright here. Sorry---I'm signed in under the Community Education account. That's great, Rob. You can send it to info@depthpsychalliance.com. So appreciate your willingness!
    •  
    • Me
 sure... just need to make a few cuts. I'll do it though.
    •  
    • Debra King
 Yes, fine with me

     

    THE CONVERSATION trailed off and ended at this point. Cheers.

     

     

  • Bonnie Bright January 10, 2014 at 2:51pm

    Hi everyone. The folks that got on the spontaneous chat last night after the first webinar have graciously agreed to let us post the chat for you to review if its of interest to you. I've attached it here as a Word document. Feel free to download if you wish.

    (By the way, in case you're ever wondering,where the "chat' function on the Alliance is, it can be found under the "chat" link at top, or down at the bottom of the page on a tab where it says "Main Room")

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